Where I live, I think it's roughly

Supplier: BGE
Location: Ellicott City, MD:
Cost: $0.11 per KWH
Battery size: 16 KWH

Per full charge = $0.11 KWH * 16 KWH = $1.76
dollar per mile: $1.76 / 33 miles = 5 cent per mile


It's about 3 time more efficient in EV mode compare to my 2011 MDX:
$2.75 per gallon / 18 mile per gallon = 15 cent per mile.


BGE also has EV rate schedule where they decrease the off peak hours rate and increase peak hours rate. We have solar panels roof so if we buy a second pure EV, it would then probably make sense to switch to EV rate schedule.

 

One further point: charging is not 100% efficient—from some quick Googling, it appears to be in the 80-90% range. So, tack on another penny per mile. Still much cheaper than gas, and electricity prices tend to be much more stable than gasoline (in my region, at least).

If you haven't already, check with your electric utility for incentives and special rates. For EVs, my utility (Consumers Energy in Michigan) will do time-of-use metering that will allow us to charge at night for 10¢/kwh.

 

Thanks.

I was not sure if you would use16KwH's to charge a 16 KwH battery or if it would be more due to some loss in the charging process. Maybe some E.E. out there can shed some light.

Also you can't use 18 miles per gallon in gas mode as a comparison. The Pacifica Hybrid is getting, according to actual driving experience from independent sources, of around 32 MPG highway in gas only mode after the battery has been depleted.

 

We pay $.08/kWh, and if we consider a 10% efficiency loss:

.08 x 17.6 = $1.41/33 miles

It costs us a little more than this, because we purchase windpower, in blocks, to offset our charging.

 

So a fully charged battery is roughly equivalent to 1 gallon of gas in terms of mileage. If it costs around $1.76 to fully charge the battery, and gas is about $2.20 near me at the moment, the difference isn't nearly as much as I was hoping. I think charging at a free charging station would make the biggest difference.

 

Well, compared to other vans it's quite a bit cheaper...if you take efficiency into consideration. For instance:

Sienna 18 mpg/City
Odyssey 19 mpg/City
Pacifica 18 mpg/City

Would cost around $3.50 in gas to go the same distance in non-hybrid vans.

 

A fully charged battery is about 33 miles, which is equivalent to about 1.33 to 1.5 gallons of gas. So $1.76 for the hybrid vs. 2.92 - 3.30 for the gas model. The cost savings on gas may not make up for the difference in depreciation though.

 

I did a little math using approximately a 20% loss during charging meaning it would take 19.2 KwH's to charge a 16 KwH battery. I have no idea if this accurate, just going by the previous post that suggested a 20% loss during charging.

I live in PA. My supplier is Penelec. My present rate per KwH is 6.51 cents per KwH. Using that calculation it would cost me about $1.25 for 33 miles of driving in electric mode vs. $2.69 in gas mode since our present gas price is $2.69 per gallon assuming the 20% loss in charging is accurate.

This is not my motivation for buying the Pacifica Hybrid. I am not some environmental "wacko". It is simply I can get a much higher trim level and much better equipped Pacifica buy buying the Pacifica Hybrid Platinum after I take advantage of the federal tax credit, state rebate, and a few other incentives I have discovered.

 

Aside, you cannot put 16KWH into the 16 KWH battery. The pacifica's hybrid system keeps the battery partially charged for acceleration, etc. So getting the price of filling up the battery is hard. Instead suggest you use the calculator at Fuel Economy, plug in your electric rate and see what 25 miles costs you. You could then scale that up to the 30 miles each electric fill-up brings.

 

When calculating your home KWH rate, be sure to take (Total Bill - Monthly Service Fee) / KWH used. Many folks mistakenly use there Supply Rate only, but for me I pay almost the same for supply as I do for transmission and taxes per KWH.
Pepco in MD with 3rd party supplier:
.076 supply
.13 Winter total rate
.16 Summer total rate

 

Thanks for the Tip

 

With my Honda Fit EV, I calculated about a 93% efficiency using my home 240V charger (Level 2). I also get on average 5.5 miles per kWhr over the past 3 years. (Around 5.8 miles a kWhr from March - Nov and 4.2 in the deep winter) So it's pretty hard to make a case for gas being cheaper than electricity with that car, regardless of conditions.

The 80% efficiency you hear is most likely when using a standard 120 outlet as there will be less efficiency using a Level 1 charger.

A minivan is much bigger, heavier and less aerodynamic, so the average miles per kWhr are much much lower. Let's just say it gets 32 miles of electric with a 16 kWhr battery, that only 2 miles per kWhr. It'll be interesting to see what real world miles per kWhr people start getting.
Not sure how easy the will be to calculate in a PHEV, I'm only used to driving a BEV around.

 

For the Chevy Volt, the numbers GM posted for charging efficiency are low-90s for Level 1, and mid-90s for Level 2. I can't recall the exact number for each, but both were in the 90s. I'd expect similar for the Pacifica - maybe better, since the charging time is less.

 

How much of the battery is actually used? My Volt reserves a significant portion of the battery as a buffer to prevent the battery from ever being fully charged or discharged. This lengthens the life of the battery considerably.

I would expect the Pacifica also doesn't charge or discharge the battery fully - so instead of basing the calculations on 16 kWh, it might be more accurate to look at 13 or so. But I don't know the details - does anyone here know?

 

I just looked at my power bill and did the math. I pay $.16121 per KWh (including all fees). That means that it would cost me about $2.58 to charge the 16KWh battery with 100% efficiency. Could that really be right? Assuming a fully charged battery is close in mileage to a gallon of gas, it would be cheaper to just use gas at $2.25 a gallon. Somebody, please tell me that my math is wrong.

 

Look into incentives and alternate rate structures from your power company. Our utility (Consumers Energy in Michigan) appears to offer a cheaper off-peak rate for EV charging, which can be used in conjunction with the scheduling features in the vehicle.

 

Yeah, I checked with my power company. They don't currently offer tiered rates for different times of day, so there is no off-peak.

 

IMHO, the current political climate is too uncertain to know what will happen. Domestic oil production could increase (though it's already been booming for quite some time), or an international crisis or trade war could destabilize oil prices worldwide. It's simply too early to know what will happen.

One of my goals with the PHEV is to be able to hedge our bets: if oil prices skyrocket, we'll still be mostly on electric. If something happens with electricity prices (much less likely, due to the diverse energy sources of our grid), we could stop plugging it in if we had to.

 

Like Tsnor says, your not charging 16 kWh's and we don't have a spec on what low end buffer is built-in and what cap is used at the high end. We do know Chrysler claims you can charge in 2 hours and the charger is rated at 6.6 kw so best guess is 13.2 kWh is what it will take to charge the Pacifica. Reverse engineering this, at 90% efficiency, the actual used kWh is around 11.88 kWh. Or about 2.7 miles per kWh. Of course this is best guess and not factoring in your personal driving habits, or weather, or terrain. Speculating can be fun.

 

best guess is 13.2 kWh is what it will take to charge the Pacifica. Reverse engineering this, at 90% efficiency, the actual used kWh is around 11.88 kWh.

Don't you have that backwards? If you're charging 13.2kWh of battery at 90% efficiency, it would take 14.7kWh of power from the grid to get there. The other 10% would lost as mostly heat.

 

I'm confused. Why are people including their service fee in the cost for electricity? Would you not have electricity if you didn't have this van?

It would seem to me that you would pay the service fee just to have electricity regardless of what vehicle you drive. It's not a cost associated with this vehicle. That would be like putting part of your mortgage on the "per mile" cost of the van because you park it in the garage.

 

I didn't see anyone including the base electric service charge in their numbers?

 

FWIW: I went to visit my kid in Plattsburg NY on the Canada border. It gets very cold up there, and everything was retrofitted to run electric heat. Simple resistive coil electric. Seemed crazy until I saw the $/kwh in Plattsburgh...

Residential Electricity in Plattsburgh Plattsburgh, NY Electricity Rates | Electricity Local
The average residential electricity rate in Plattsburgh is 4.36¢/kWh.[1]
This average (residential) electricity rate in Plattsburgh is 75.26% less than the New York average rate of 17.62¢/kWh.[2]
The average (residential) electricity rate in Plattsburgh is 63.3% less than the national average rate of 11.88¢/kWh. Residential rates in the U.S. range from 8.37¢/kWh to 37.34¢/kWh.[2]

 

The average residential electricity rate in Plattsburgh is 4.36¢/kWh

Wow! I live right across the lake from Plattsburgh but pay 16.8¢/kWh. I need to run a long extension cord!

 

Using a kWh meter, the Pacifica takes 13.7kWh to charge from "empty" to full. Its pretty consistent. For comparison, my e-tron has an 8.8kWh battery and uses 6.7kWh to charge. Both cars use a buffer, because completely charging and/or completely discharging the battery is bad for it.

I pay $.16/kWH until my baseline, then $.25/kWh. Feel like im gettting ripped off!:frown2:

 

rpgonzalez - what is your baseline?

 

300-400kWh. I went solar to stay below that line, and so far so good!

 

I live in Northern Calif.

PGE says 4 cents per KWH if charged at 11 pm to 7 am
times 16 kw = 64 cents to go 32 miles This is about 2 cents per mile

Yesterday I paid $ 3.49 for gas. @ 25 mpg this is 14 cents per mile

I have not got a bill from PGE yet, and am estimating the mpg
I will update.

 

PG&E is way more than 4-cents per kWh.

 

Here is PG&E's current E-1 rate schedule, which applies to folks who have an EV and sign up with PG&E for E-1:

Winter, weekday: Peak 2pm-9pm: $0.32018/kWh Partial-Peak 7am-11pm: $0.19794/kWh Off Peak: $0.12503/kWh
Winter, weekend: Peak 3pm-7pm: $0.32018/kWh Off-Peak: $0.12503/kWh

Summer, weekday: Peak 2pm-9pm: $0.45389/kWh Partial-Peak 7am-11pm: $0.24986/kWh Off Peak: $0.12225/kWh
Summer, weekend: Peak 3pm-7pm: $0.45389/kWh Off-Peak: $0.12225/kWh

Generally, I get around 2.5 miles/kWh. The off-peak cost of battery driving is about $0.05/mile, partial peak can be as high as $0.10/mile, and peak is $0.13/mile in the winter and $0.18/mile in the summer.

Compared to gas, it's more expensive to charge during peak, a bit less expensive to charge during partial-peak, and way less expensive to charge off peak. So we fully charge at night, top it off after dropping the kids off at school, Martha commutes to work and back on battery, and we use gas to move the kids around after school.

Compared to driving my 3-series, the PacHy is less expensive to operate, and the kids and Martha like it better, so it's getting about 4x as many miles.

A 24 to 30 kWh battery would be perfect for us, and we'd have been willing to spend an extra $400/kWh for the extra capacity.

 

In Phoenix, with Arizona Public Service's "Saver Choice Max" rate schedule implemented last year and available to anyone, with or without an EV:

Peak periods are 3pm to 8pm on weekdays, Off-peak periods are 8pm to 3pm on weekdays and all day weekends

Winter, Peak $0.06376, Off Peak $0.05230
Summer, Peak $0.08683, Off Peak $0.05230

The gotcha is that every kilowatt of demand you add during the highest peak period hour in the month costs $12.24 in the winter and $17.44 in the summer. But if I charge only during off-peak hours then that doesn't apply and the marginal cost of charging the car is simply 5.23 cents per kilowatt, summer or winter.

If I use Iain's figure of 2.5 miles/kWh then driving on the battery costs approximately 2 cents a mile. Gas in this area currently costs about $2.20/gallon. If I use the EPA estimate of 33mpg then driving on gas costs about 6.7 cents a mile.

 

Don't own a Pacifica Hybrid yet (and have never owned an electric vehicle) so doing my research. I've read through this thread and have a question. I filled up my Rav4 Hybrid this morning: $3.16/gallon (approx 11 gallons = $36.98). It's $.10/kwh to charge at my work. I don't know yet what it costs at home although I'm not sure I would need to charge at home much. When checking numbers on the Fuel Economy website, it says it would cost me $42 month with that mostly being electric. I fill up my tank now at least twice/month so that's approx $74/month. So I'd be saving about $32/month going electric vs gas. Does this sound about right? Gas prices fluxuate so much I know it's hard to estimate, and $3.16 is actually pretty high right now in my area for unleaded. I would say it's closer to $3.00 on average. (This was Safeway gas so cheaper than most.)

 

So with the personalized options on this setup being:
15k miles driven per year
55% stop and go
$3.10 for gas
$.10/kwh

Looks like $400/year savings Pacifica vs Rav4 with those assumptions

 

I? guess if you really want that info, you can get an EVSE that captures all that data.

 

That works if you're charging at home. What about when you're on the road, like I was over the holiday. We charged at a campground, at a parking garage, and at a roadside attraction. When I go to the gas station and fill up it would be nice to have all the numbers I need when I reset the trip odometer and record my gasoline purchase. I can live with it the way it is, but it would be nice to have all the info.