[RockyRaku]

@PacificaMinivanFan,
It just occurred to me to ask - is there any other way the oil cooler could be leaking besides over tightening the oil filter cap? Or is that pretty much how it can happen if the car has only ever had routine, scheduled oil changes and several recalls for reprogramming the PCM, the manual park release issue and the battery clamp that was for the power steering assist. I also see something where they did something with the alternator. Is that anywhere near the oil cooler?

 

[RockyRaku]

@PacificaMinivanFan,
It just occurred to me to ask - is there any other way the oil cooler could be leaking besides over tightening the oil filter cap? Or is that pretty much how it can happen if the car has only ever had routine, scheduled oil changes and several recalls for reprogramming the PCM, the manual park release issue and the battery clamp that was for the power steering assist. I also see something where they did something with the alternator. Is that anywhere near the oil cooler?

You read my mind. LOL!

 

[PacificaMinivanFan]

@PacificaMinivanFan,
It just occurred to me to ask - is there any other way the oil cooler could be leaking besides over tightening the oil filter cap? Or is that pretty much how it can happen if the car has only ever had routine, scheduled oil changes and several recalls for reprogramming the PCM, the manual park release issue and the battery clamp that was for the power steering assist. I also see something where they did something with the alternator. Is that anywhere near the oil cooler?

There are reports from members on this forum of the seals failing where the oil cooler connects to the engine. I'm not smart enough to know how many miles are typically on the odometer when that starts to happen. Re: the alternator, it should not have any bearing with what is going on with the oil cooler, but if they accidently hit the oil filter pipe hard enough when servicing the alternator, who knows?

 

[ThisSuckersElectrical]

This may not be related because this is a 3.6;Pentastar on a 2014 Town & Country.
code P0302. Cylinder 2 failed leakdown test and had low compression compared to other cylinders.
burned valves, camshafts and spark plugs replaced and oil changed.
idle speed fluctuates and loss of power became obvious along with ticking sound. CEL came on.

It is not related...

 

[ThisSuckersElectrical]

If you are just starting to have coolant loss and didn’t overheat the engine no reason for a new engine just get the one head and gasket replaced, a new mopar head is around $300 dollars plus gaskets etc etc looking at $500 with parts, labor shouldn’t be crazy it’s a one day job

Mopar head link

68293289AB - Cylinder Head, Left Side 2016-2025 Mopar | Mopar Factory Parts

Get Your OEM Cylinder Head, Left Side (68293289ab) Delivered Right To Your Door For Your 2016-2025 Mopar Vehicle At AN Affordable Price With Nationwide Shipping!

www.moparfactoryparts.com

@RockyRaku I would advise not doing this. Owners that did this bandaid have reported the engine failing shortly after the 12-month/12,000-mile warranty for the work needing a new engine anyway due to cracked/warped block. This problem is far deeper than a head gasket failing. But hey, it's your money.

 

[RockyRaku]

There are reports from members on this forum of the seals failing where the oil cooler connects to the engine. I'm not smart enough to know how many miles are typically on the odometer when that starts to happen. Re: the alternator, it should not have any bearing with what is going on with the oil cooler, but if they accidently hit the oil filter pipe hard enough when servicing the alternator, who knows?

I just doublechecked and the alternator was back in 2020, well before that suspect oil change in August 2022. The other big issue I had was this past May when the AC compressor went out and had to be replaced. Is it anywhere near the oil cooler? I really don't know the layout of this engine and associated parts.

@RockyRaku I would advise not doing this. Owners that did this bandaid have reported the engine failing shortly after the 12-month/12,000-mile warranty for the work needing a new engine anyway due to cracked/warped block. This problem is far deeper than a head gasket failing. But hey, it's your money.

Thanks, @ThisSuckersElectrical. I had pretty much decided against the "expensive band-aid" repair.

Meanwhile I was just given a dealer estimate for $11,500 to replace the engine. This is $6600 for the engine and the rest is labor. It will have a 3 year/100,000 mile warranty. The engine is a complete, upgraded with everything on it, engine. He asked about doing the long block repair, which would have saved a couple thousand, but Chrysler said they aren't doing the long blocks and wouldn't even supply the parts. Do you think that means Chrysler knows that it doesn't fix the problem with the engine if they won't even offer it as a choice? We did discuss the number of these engine failures for whatever this problem is and I pointed out that I was #200 just on this forum and that most had the misfire and leak on #3 or #5 cylinders. He said that the misfire had been on #5 but they also found coolant in #3. The oil cooler was not cracked. We also discussed the potential for a future recall and that the repair would be well-documented if that happens. I have not authorized the repair yet as I am "sleeping on it". It's an unexpected big chunk of change to be spending on what I consider to be still a relatively new car. Yes, it is cheaper than buying a new one and having a car payment again, and I had just put on a new set of tires in September. I have not heard anything back from Chrysler, but I do realize this is a holiday week.

 

[ThisSuckersElectrical]

but Chrysler said they aren't doing the long blocks and wouldn't even supply the parts. Do you think that means Chrysler knows that it doesn't fix the problem with the engine if they won't even offer it as a choice?

They know what is going on by now. This is evident from the silence regarding the issue.

 

[RockyRaku]

This is an incredibly informative thread. I want to thank you all, because I will know what I need to ask my service guy when he calls me back. No diagnosis yet, but I took my 2017 Touring L+ in this morning with the check engine light on again for the second time in the past two months. This morning's mileage was 56,000. I bought it brand new in September 2017, so it is 6 years old and out of warranty.

The story: mid-October the ESS light came on. The next day it went off but the check engine light came on and stayed on for a couple of days. Then it went off. A day or two later the check engine light came back on and stayed on. Off to the dealer for a diagnosis. Code showed misfire on cylinder 5. They moved the coil and the code did not follow it. And it didn't code again while they had it. Could not find anything wrong. Sent it back home with instructions to bring it back in if the check engine came on again. No charges that day. Drove it on 800+ mile road trip a week later. 400+ miles 9 days apart. No check engine light. Day after returning home, check engine light came back on. Due to having tested positive for covid, did not take car in for a week and a half. Also did not drive it much during that time, obviously. Made service appointment for today (Wednesday). This past Monday check engine light was off. Next day the ESS light came on, then went off again. Then check engine light came back on and was still on for the dealer today. Same code - cylinder 5 misfire. Noted that car has been running a bit rough when started first thing in the morning, but smooths out after a couple of minutes. Service manager mentioned possible head gasket and said that could be coolant leaking into the cylinder, causing the misfire and as engine warmed, evaporating and then running smoothly after that. Also has a "hot" smell after driving it and stopping. It finally occurred to me that I was probably smelling hot coolant. Dealer has always topped off fluids at every oil change, but lately I noticed the coolant reservoir level has been at or around minimum. It has never gotten completely empty.

It's taken me so long to write this that I just got the call from the dealership. Put me on the List.

Yes, coolant in the 5 cylinder. Looking at replacing the block which would get me a 1 year warranty or replacing the engine which would get me a 3 year/100K mile warranty. They prefer to replace the engine since replacing the block seems to not fix it for very long. Apparently they have had to fix this problem a few times. He will get back to me on Friday with pricing. And try to do the best he can on that. I have been a good customer for the past six years, and I think they are a good service department. But at least i didn't go into shock at the news since I had pretty much figured out what was wrong by reading all of these posts about it. Like so many others have written, I love this car, it does everything I need a minivan to do, and it has a bit of style and a lot of comfort. Perfect for my craft fairs and road trips. But I really hate the mechanical issues and I doubt I will ever get another one. Unless you can prove to me that the newer model years don't have this problem! Do they have the same engine?

Most recent post regarding failed engine:
"Meanwhile I was just given a dealer estimate for $11,500 to replace the engine. This is $6600 for the engine and the rest is labor. It will have a 3 year/100,000 mile warranty. The engine is a complete, upgraded with everything on it, engine. He asked about doing the long block repair, which would have saved a couple thousand, but Chrysler said they aren't doing the long blocks and wouldn't even supply the parts. Do you think that means Chrysler knows that it doesn't fix the problem with the engine if they won't even offer it as a choice? We did discuss the number of these engine failures for whatever this problem is and I pointed out that I was #200 just on this forum and that most had the misfire and leak on #3 or #5 cylinders. He said that the misfire had been on #5 but they also found coolant in #3. The oil cooler was not cracked. We also discussed the potential for a future recall and that the repair would be well-documented if that happens. I have not authorized the repair yet as I am "sleeping on it". It's an unexpected big chunk of change to be spending on what I consider to be still a relatively new car. Yes, it is cheaper than buying a new one and having a car payment again, and I had just put on a new set of tires in September. I have not heard anything back from Chrysler, but I do realize this is a holiday week."

I am adding my most recent post and doing this as a reply so as to add @ChryslerCares to my original posts. I hope I don't confuse anyone. Thanks for everyone's input and I will keep updating as I get more information.

 

[RockyRaku]

I did think of one more thing that it did one morning, only I don't remember when it happened, just within the past year or two. One morning I started it up to back out of the garage and noticed a big puff of smoke out of the tailpipe. I think it was bluish-white. It only ever did it one time and I sort of forgot about it. Did I read something about something like this here or on one of the other engine threads?

Also, my BIL is suggesting that I get the van back and put Bar's Leak in it and continue to drive it. He's an airplane mechanic and regularly works on his own cars and I was just wondering what others think about doing that. Would it save me anything? Would it cause any issues if there was ever a recall?

 

[ThisSuckersElectrical]

I did think of one more thing that it did one morning, only I don't remember when it happened, just within the past year or two. One morning I started it up to back out of the garage and noticed a big puff of smoke out of the tailpipe. I think it was bluish-white. It only ever did it one time and I sort of forgot about it. Did I read something about something like this here or on one of the other engine threads?

Also, my BIL is suggesting that I get the van back and put Bar's Leak in it and continue to drive it. He's an airplane mechanic and regularly works on his own cars and I was just wondering what others think about doing that. Would it save me anything? Would it cause any issues if there was ever a recall?

Bars? Steel Seal is the way to go if you want to go that route. It flat-out works I know firsthand. Had on 06 Freestar that developed a head gasket leak losing coolant. Put that in at 124,000 miles and it fixed the issue. Sold it with 198,000 miles and it is still going today with 340,000 miles on the same engine.

Steel Seal Head Gasket Repair – Head Gasket Fix – Money Back Guarantee

Would be worth a try. DO NOT mix this stuff with coolant. The system must be flushed and the product run through with water only. Then flushed again to get rid of it. Then fill with new coolant. If you mix it with coolant you will get silica drop out.

 

[RockyRaku]

Thank you for the information on Steel Seal. I am going to ask my BIL if he will do the flush and seal, since he has a strong desire to save me $11K. Since they tell me the engine needs to be replaced anyway, I guess I've got nothing to lose by trying it.

 

[Mad Mac]

I just doublechecked and the alternator was back in 2020, well before that suspect oil change in August 2022. The other big issue I had was this past May when the AC compressor went out and had to be replaced. Is it anywhere near the oil cooler? I really don't know the layout of this engine and associated parts.

Interested to see this: my compressor died about a month before the coolant loss issue started.

 

[RockyRaku]

Interested to see this: my compressor died about a month before the coolant loss issue started.

That is very interesting! Mine failed out of warranty but Chrysler covered it. Then the Van was in for oil change first of September and everything was okay at that time. Got new tires just after that and then drove from NorCal to Canada in September with no problems. In October the check engine light came on with the misfire code. Coolant in reservoir never dropped below the minimum line although I noted that it was lower than I thought it should be. They moved the coils around, couldn’t duplicate it so said drive it and see if light came back on. Drove NorCal to LA and the day after returning home check engine back on with same code and this time found coolant in cylinder. It’s still at the shop waiting for me to figure out what to do.

 

[RockyRaku]

So, to update, I just spoke to my case manager from Chrysler Customer Support and he needs to talk to the dealership and his superiors and then get back to me tomorrow.

The gist of our conversation was that a head gasket failure is only covered under the Basic Warranty, which was 3 years/36000 miles. It is not covered under the Powertrain Warranty of 5 years/60000 miles. This seems crazy to me because the dealer's fix for the head gasket is to replace the entire engine, not repair the head gasket. About a month ago, Chrysler changed the Powertrain Warranty to state that engine overheating issues are no longer covered under any warranty. So basically, if you have a blown head gasket, Chrysler dealerships are no longer allowed to fix that problem because the repairs are not warrantable, and the dealership won't be paid for warranty work, if they redo it. So If it was not a blown head gasket, they might have been able to do some goodwill assistance as it was still under 60K in mileage.

So this begs the question, for me anyway, which came first: the coolant leak or the head gasket leak? Is it possible for it to leak from some other cause, and then blow the head gasket? And, I guess until they tear into the engine, they won't know if the head gasket is even bad? Or is there a test for that without tearing into the engine? This whole thing is like which came first, the chicken or the egg! 😡

In any case, I'm going to go look at a Honda Odyssey tomorrow morning.

 

[M0Par]

So, to update, I just spoke to my case manager from Chrysler Customer Support and he needs to talk to the dealership and his superiors and then get back to me tomorrow.

The gist of our conversation was that a head gasket failure is only covered under the Basic Warranty, which was 3 years/36000 miles. It is not covered under the Powertrain Warranty of 5 years/60000 miles. This seems crazy to me because the dealer's fix for the head gasket is to replace the entire engine, not repair the head gasket. About a month ago, Chrysler changed the Powertrain Warranty to state that engine overheating issues are no longer covered under any warranty. So basically, if you have a blown head gasket, Chrysler dealerships are no longer allowed to fix that problem because the repairs are not warrantable, and the dealership won't be paid for warranty work, if they redo it. So If it was not a blown head gasket, they might have been able to do some goodwill assistance as it was still under 60K in mileage.

So this begs the question, for me anyway, which came first: the coolant leak or the head gasket leak? Is it possible for it to leak from some other cause, and then blow the head gasket? And, I guess until they tear into the engine, they won't know if the head gasket is even bad? Or is there a test for that without tearing into the engine? This whole thing is like which came first, the chicken or the egg! 😡

In any case, I'm going to go look at a Honda Odyssey tomorrow morning.

Where exactly is this change in warranty coverage documented?

Good idea to look at a non-Chrysler product.

 

[PacificaMinivanFan]

So, to update, I just spoke to my case manager from Chrysler Customer Support and he needs to talk to the dealership and his superiors and then get back to me tomorrow.

The gist of our conversation was that a head gasket failure is only covered under the Basic Warranty, which was 3 years/36000 miles. It is not covered under the Powertrain Warranty of 5 years/60000 miles. (Say what?). This seems crazy to me because the dealer's fix for the head gasket is to replace the entire engine, not repair the head gasket. About a month ago, Chrysler changed the Powertrain Warranty to state that engine overheating issues are no longer covered under any warranty. (I have not received anything from Chrysler of any changes to their warranties, of which we own two). Moreover, i do not believe they are allowed to make such changes unless Stellantis wants to open itself up to lawsuits.) So basically, if you have a blown head gasket, Chrysler dealerships are no longer allowed to fix that problem because the repairs are not warrantable, and the dealership won't be paid for warranty work, if they redo it. So If it was not a blown head gasket, they might have been able to do some goodwill assistance as it was still under 60K in mileage.

So this begs the question, for me anyway, which came first: the coolant leak or the head gasket leak? Is it possible for it to leak from some other cause, and then blow the head gasket? (One theory is that engine coolant and oil leak from the plastic oil filter housing which is connected to the oil cooler, caused by someone overtightening the oil filter cap and cracking the housing. This leads to loss of coolant. If owners fail to notice coolant draining out of the reservoir and it goes completely dry, air can get into the cooling system and cause the engine to overheat.) And, I guess until they tear into the engine, they won't know if the head gasket is even bad? Or is there a test for that without tearing into the engine? (They can check for exhaust gases bubbling into the coolant reservoir, or do a pressure test.)This whole thing is like which came first, the chicken or the egg! 😡

In any case, I'm going to go look at a Honda Odyssey tomorrow morning. (Based on how you've been treated by your case manager from Chrysler Customer Service, I can't say that I would blame you!)

Please see inserted comments above. (Click to expand).

 

[Classic Owner]

So, to update, I just spoke to my case manager from Chrysler Customer Support and he needs to talk to the dealership and his superiors and then get back to me tomorrow.

The gist of our conversation was that a head gasket failure is only covered under the Basic Warranty, which was 3 years/36000 miles. It is not covered under the Powertrain Warranty of 5 years/60000 miles. This seems crazy to me because the dealer's fix for the head gasket is to replace the entire engine, not repair the head gasket. About a month ago, Chrysler changed the Powertrain Warranty to state that engine overheating issues are no longer covered under any warranty. So basically, if you have a blown head gasket, Chrysler dealerships are no longer allowed to fix that problem because the repairs are not warrantable, and the dealership won't be paid for warranty work, if they redo it. So If it was not a blown head gasket, they might have been able to do some goodwill assistance as it was still under 60K in mileage.

So this begs the question, for me anyway, which came first: the coolant leak or the head gasket leak? Is it possible for it to leak from some other cause, and then blow the head gasket? And, I guess until they tear into the engine, they won't know if the head gasket is even bad? Or is there a test for that without tearing into the engine? This whole thing is like which came first, the chicken or the egg! 😡

In any case, I'm going to go look at a Honda Odyssey tomorrow morning.

Stay away from the Odyssey as well. They love to eat oil, eat transmissions, need regular valve adjustments, and are plagued with electronic issues.

At this point the Sedona/Carnival are the only decent minivans left. Unless of course you go to a nice low mileage older van.

 

[Mad Mac]

(Lengthy quote re change to warranty terms omitted for clarity)

My somewhat cynical ‘take‘ on this is that they’re tacitly admitting that they‘ve got a serious problem here and are on the run from it.

 

[PacificaMinivanFan]

(Lengthy quote re change to warranty terms omitted for clarity)

My somewhat cynical ‘take‘ on this is that they’re tacitly admitting that they‘ve got a serious problem here and are on the run from it.

I have yet to find any evidence that Chrysler has changed coverage of its powertrain warranty per the claim in the following post:

The gist of our conversation was that a head gasket failure is only covered under the Basic Warranty, which was 3 years/36000 miles. It is not covered under the Powertrain Warranty of 5 years/60000 miles... About a month ago, Chrysler changed the Powertrain Warranty to state that engine overheating issues are no longer covered under any warranty. So basically, if you have a blown head gasket, Chrysler dealerships are no longer allowed to fix that problem because the repairs are not warrantable, and the dealership won't be paid for warranty work, if they redo it.

@Chrysler Cares... is this claim true? Have there been changes to Chrysler's Powertrain Warranty?

 

[Classic Owner]

Chrysler Powertrain Warranty Is 5 Years Or 60,000 Miles From The Original Sale Date
The Chrysler Powertrain Warranty starts at the time of original purchase. This Warranty follows the vehicle and covers all owners. The Basic Warranty(Referred to as the bumper-bumper) is for 3 years or 36,000 miles. Todays Chrysler Powertrain Warranty is 5 years and 60,000 miles. The powertrain warranty covers the costs of parts and labor for the following repairs. Firstly, the engine, Secondly the Transmission and Thirdly is your front wheel and or all wheel drive components.

Chrysler Powertrain Warranty - What Is Covered?

Chrysler Powertrain Warranty. 5 Years /60,000 Miles. What Is Covered And For How Long. Where To Get A Chrysler Extended Warranty.

www.chrysler-factory-warranty.com

Me thinks someone is lying to them because they don't want to do warranty work. Welcome to the average Chrysler dealership experience.